Host: 0:00

Music. Hello and welcome to the IOSH podcast. These episodes will feature exclusive interviews with industry experts behind the scenes, discussions with members and conversations with future leaders of the health and safety profession. In this episode, two ofIOSH's Future Leaders share their very different experiences of entering OSH as a second career and how helpful networking has been for them. Joining us today on the podcast, we have two members of IOSH Future Leaders Steering Group, Debbie Linzell and Abhijith Jose. Welcome to the IOSH podcast, it's great to have you here. Let's start by finding out more about each of you. Abhi, I know you've really carved out a niche for yourself in your career. Could you tell us a bit more about your background?

Abhi Jose: 1:00

Yeah sure, Kellie. I graduated as a mechanical engineer, and then I started working in occupational health and safety as a health and safety inspection engineer. And while I was doing the job, slowly, I start to do safety training, and I have got many certifications, like ISO 45001, which made me more into this OSH field, which I've got a lot of knowledge as I work as an inspection engineer and trainer. Then I got more into delivering training, like IOSH Managing Safely. I got my Train the Trainer from IOSH, and slowly have to be I started to become a full time trainer. So currently I am working as a full time trainer.

Host: 1:53

Excellent. And Debbie, you trained as a dancer and graduated with a dance degree - how did you move into OSH?

Debbie Linzell: 2:04

Unfortunately, due to injury, I was actually unable to pursue my first career in dance. So despite having the degree in dance, I could not then carry on as a dancer unfortunately. I had just healed from an operation on my foot when I got offered a job working with the health and safety team at the Francis Crick Institute, supporting them to move to a brand new building. I thenbecame the coordinator for the team, which is when I was given more responsibility and also supported to complete my NEBOSHcertificate.

Host: 2:40

I love the idea that anyone can enter OSH, from people embarking on their first career to those make thinking of making a career transition. And what are your thoughts on that, Debbie?

Debbie Linzell: 2:52

I think it's absolutely brilliant. I never thought I would end up in OSH, but now I really enjoy it. I know, like very many people, havemade a transition into OSH from their first career, from roles suchas engineers, makeup artists and bar and kitchen workers. It's just amazing where you can come from. Abhi, what do you think?

Abhi Jose: 3:15

Yeah, I also feel the same. Because when I was graduating, it was all engineering thoughts in my mind, and it was very easy to transition into occupational health and safety, and it is something that I love to do right now. It's like when you're trying to do something that can save other people's lives. It really means a lot to me, and I know a lot of people who have worked in different fields and come into the OSH career - I know a person who was who was a chef and is now a food safety trainer. I know a person who was a medic in contact sports, and right now she's a health and safety advisor for events. And I also know a lawyer who is a complaints manager in a company for health and safety. So it's like from different sides people can enter OSH.

Host: 4:09

It's really interesting, isn't it, how OSH can kind of touch so many different sectors and industries. But what about certifications and qualifications? Because obviously you need those. What's been useful for you, Debbie?

Debbie Linzell: 4:23

So even though the NEBOSH certificate definitely helped propel my career, I feel that I have learnt a lot from experience, as well as through the extra training courses such as first aid courses, DSE assessor courses, and the ISO 45001 auditor training. I really enjoy learning, and I've just begun a Level 7 apprenticeship. So I'm looking forward to seeing how that next level of qualification goes for me. How about you, Abhi, what training have you found useful?

Abhi Jose: 4:57

Yeah, my start into an OSH career was because of the NEBOSH International General Certificate. And I also took IOSH ManagingSafely. I think both of these are something that is really going to help you start a career in OSH. And I have also taken ISO 45001 which has helped me learn more about the standard and how to do some internal audits. I have also completed first aid training. And right now, since I'm a trainer, I also have some training from IOSH, like Train the Trainer, which helps me deliver IOSH Managing Safely training. And I also have a first aid instructor training which also helps me to deliver first aid training. So when it comes to qualifications, there is a lot! I am also certified as a MEWP operator, and I also have training on MEWP for managers, training related to scaffolding, which is from PASMA. And I'm also working on some cloud safety training at the same time. So there is a lot!

Host: 6:06

You sound like you've both been very, very busy in your careers. So what about networking? How have you built your networks, and were you able to rely on them for support during your early career?

Debbie Linzell: 6:19

In my early days, my network was actually very limited, as I only really knew my team, but it was absolutely brilliant for me to be supported and inspired by such a lovely group of people whom I still keep in touch with. I also went to a Future Leaders Conference within my first few years in OSH, which really opened my mind and network.

Host: 6:40

Abhi, how have you built your networks, and were you able to rely on them for support?

Abhi Jose: 6:45

My network is mostly through LinkedIn, and I was able to make a lot of connections where people are working in different fields, and I was able to contact to them to know what kind of qualifications they have taken to for them to reach this point of their career. And I have tried to adapt that there are some peoplewho have helped me, like giving guidance on what should I do next, especially through LinkedIn. And I'm sure that LinkedIn is one of the best way you can build your network. And another thing which I felt really useful is IOSH mentoring. So I have couple of mentors who has guided me very well in practicing through my OSH journey.

Host: 7:24

Excellent. It really helps you get that foot in the door, doesn't it, reaching out to that network. So Debbie, have you found LinkedIn has played a part in your career?

Debbie Linzell: 7:34

Yes, definitely. I was actually found by an agency through LinkedIn and selected for interview from my previous job at the Natural History Museum, I've worked on growing and cultivating my network posting when I can, and I thoroughly enjoy reading insightful posts and celebrating career milestones and updates with my network.

Host: 7:53

I'll have to add you after this recording. So Abhi, are there any perceptions of Occupational Safety and Health that you'd like to change?

Abhi Jose: 8:02

When I talk to people regarding promoting OSH as a first career choice, many people tell me that it's lot of documentation. You have to do some assessment reviews, and there is nothing much more into this. But actually it is different. It is more than that. It's more like you are advising the people or doing the same work to do it in a safe manner. So at the end of the day, you are actually saving people's life. So it really matters. It's a job. When you're doing it gives a sense of positive feeling that you're working for something. So when people start to have this mindset, I'm sure they will start to accept posh as a major carrier for them.

Host: 8:49

Absolutely. And like we were saying, it kind of infiltrates into all aspects of life, doesn't it? So Debbie, what's been your experience of being a woman in obviously, what's it is still considered to be a male dominated profession, isn't it?

Debbie Linzell: 9:03

Yes it is. Generally, I have been very lucky to mostly have supportive and understanding peers. However, when I first started in OSH as a relatively young female, I was subject to a few comments and challenging situations. Wouldn't say these were directly from other OSH professionals, necessarily, but they were from people that I worked with. I think we like to believe that it doesn't happen as much anymore, but I'm very aware that the views and the opinions are still out there. It was hard for me not to let those moments get to me, but I decided it reflected more on them than it did me, and it actually had so much little to do with me at all.

Host: 9:47

That's a great way of looking at it. And so even though OSH was a second career choice for both of you, can you tell me what you love about it?

Debbie Linzell: 9:57

I love that no two days are the same. I cover such a variety of topics and get to interact with colleagues at such different levels and in completely different departments. I can go from auditing the airport fire service to working with food and beverages on their risk assessments, and sometimes that's in the same day. I also love to be able to say I'm improving colleague safety and ensuring people leave work in the same condition or better condition than they arrived in. How about you Abhi, what do you love about OSH?

Abhi Jose: 10:28

I like that every day there is something new to learn. You're always going to be better than yesterday. So you learn something that is very interesting for you today, which you're trying to apply it in your organisation, and tomorrow, there are many other things which you can also apply, which can ultimately save people's life. And one of the thing which I really like to do is share what I have learned. So as I'm a trainer, I always focus on sharing the knowledge and helping others know this is the right as well as this is the safe way for doing the work. So that's what I love about OSH.

Host: 11:04

Both really, really good reasons. And so what inspired you to become a future leader Abhi?

Abhi Jose: 11:10

I've seen many people who has reached like who have done very well in their career, especially IOSH members. I have seen that they were future leaders in the past. So they were able to get a lot of you know information, their lot of experience. They were able to connect with a lot of people, and I'm sure that has really, you know, helped them in doing the best in their career. So future leaders is like a group which is always here to support you. They are giving you a lot of opportunities to do the best. So I wanted to be the best. So I thought future leaders is always the good option. That's how I came into it.

Host: 11:55

I'm loving that attitude. How about you? Debbie,

Debbie Linzell: 11:57

The previous Future Leaders really inspired me. But due to impostor syndrome, I don't think I would have made the jump to apply without reaching out and receive the support of a previous member. I'm so glad I did apply and get it. It's been wonderful for my confidence. And if anyone listening is thinking of applying or wondering whether it's for you, please reach out to me or another member of the group, because we'd be so happy to chat it through with you.

Host: 12:28

What a lovely note to end it on - how people helped you and really encouraged you to join, and now you want to do the same throughout for others. So please do get in touch with myself, Debbie or Abhi if you are interested in the Future Leaders Steering Group. I speak to Future Leaders for this podcast all of the time, and they have nothing but great things to say about it and how it's helped them in their career. So that's really lovely to hear. Thank you both so much for joining me today on the IOSH podcast. It's been great to speak to you.

Debbie Linzell: 13:01

Thank you.

Abhi Jose: 13:02

Thank you, Kellie.

Unknown: 13:04

Thanks for listening. Tune in again soon for more conversations on all things health and safety.